It can certainly be argued that Fantasy was never really out of vogue being able to claim films like The Wizard of OZ and a lot of the Disney franchise and then through Star Wars (the debate that it’s Science Fiction is not really a debate is it? It’s not, and it’s not a knock to say so) or holiday movies like Miracle on 34th Street and the popularity of stuff like King Kong in it’s day but like many people I kind of - in my own mind - think of these movies as just old, or classic films (to be honest I view things as pre or post-Tomio!) but I was recently confronted with a question of what was my favorite Fantasy movies of my lifetime (the Sam Beckett rule), and knowing I consider Star Wars fantasy the person asked me not to count that. Now I immediately went into post-modern (by the definition that we use but don’t know what it means but ti sounds cool on blog - a lot like noir) and started saying stuff like Run Lola Run, The Fall, Donnie Darko, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (which admittedly I’d call SF) and of course The Lord of the Rings adaptations and I found myself rather disgusted with myself but unable to disattach myself from the choices - these are excellent films but when presented with the question what did I enjoy more -Big Trouble in Little China or Children of Men? Well, damn it I like both, but I felt this inner conflict that two sides of me could not come to terms with so they hammered out a truce for the purposes of my vaunted blogging career. It was called the Jurassic Truce as 1993 was picked as the other cap for movies under consideration. That, along with The Matrix were movies that I went and say and you knew - like them or not - that movies have changed. When Jurrassic Park came out I think it inspired a whole bunch of people who are doing all the cutting edge shit now in movies that less ambitious people like me watch and blog about while they create. This is a good date as well because it kind of plays into my recent post about Brian’s post about film and influence and these are those movies that even in the DVD era and the on-demand entertainment era, that I see coming on and I sit my ass down and watch, and will tell me to I can’t BS with them that day, but they are welcome to chill. They are without question as important to my admiration for the fantastic, and for me co-owning the Future Empire, as books by people like Moorcock, Tolkien, McKillip, Herbert, Zelazny, Brooks (yes, - I can’t front, dude was essential in my childhood) King (The Gunslinger people!) were. So here we go, and this isn’t going to be some digging of rare gems - people my age are going to recognize these films and say “Well, no shit” (which is why their little description, I’m afraid that when I was young I kind of just watched what was out and most of this stuff is pretty status-quo, standard material) but since Damon has me watching some god awful modern Transformers incarnation on DVD, I need to ponder positive thoughts, you know, for recollection I use the common sense resurrection (stolen from A.L.). So here we go, in no particular order:
Return to OZ (1985)
Still one of the most gangster movies I have ever seen, maximizing the idea of being a foil to the original film and taking tales back to their horror roots. I’m not that old, but I’m old enough that even in the 80’s when the original Wizard of Oz was coming on TV - kids knew about it and this was an era when you would see kids outside. I touched on this above a bit but it wouldn’t shock me if my first step were on yellow brick following the song of a girl from Kansas. Think about the original escapist movies that always told you got to come back to handle.
Big Trouble in Little China (1986)
It’s a movie I can’t imagine any guy not liking. Along with Top Gun it may have been the most quoted movie of my teenage years, I mean ‘Don’t worry, I’m here”- that’s classic!
Brazil (1985)
Okay it’s SF, but this the movie that people my age had to go back and watch once they old older. There isn’t a dystopian film that’s not mining from this Gilliam movie.
The Neverending Story (1984)
Early Wolfgang Peterson film (and his best). Was there a movie besides this one and my next choice that made you want to go home and open a book? I also want recommend people to check out the orignial novel by Michael Ende - it’s well worth it.
Beetle Juice (1988)
You are starting to see that a lot of these movies were made by creators that still have significant names in the business. This is, of course, a Tim Burton movie and for me was the first time that I was confronted with the idea that I may indeed live in a rather strange world filled with odd people who’d create something like this. Kids went to school the next day with a slightly new outlook and D-Hall’s attendance went up 30% in the country.
The Princess Bride (1987)
This is one of those movies, that if I could channel Marvel comics artist Skottie Young on the old school Around Comics podcasts for a moment - if you don’t like this movie, you might hate freedom as well. From wonder years, to heavy champs, to the cliffs of insanity . It so fundamental it wouldn’t surprise me if Damon didn’t like this movie because evidence is starting to suggest he just hates awesome.
The Dark Crystal (1982)
The existence of this movie shows the the complete back pedal in what we feel children now can comprehend. We just gave up or something. but Jim Henson…I mean there is nothing more to say about the man beyond the guy was just a creative force, anybody remember The Storyteller? The Dark Crystal was what Gene Wolfe would have done if Severian was a a muppet.
Willow (1988)
When Val Kilmer was the shit! I mean, Madmartigan and Ice Man? Completely derivative, but still the best movie Lucas has been a part of in 20 years and say what you will, nobody does derivative quite like Lucas. he is uniquely derivative.
Edward Scissorhands (1990)
Kind of in the same boat as the other Burton film listed where I found myself becoming a New Weirder befor I knew what and old one was and contemplating deviance - or that could have been Wynona. Excluding the Star Wars films this was really the movie I remember where at the time I really noticed the music (who now that I look it up was done by Elfman).
The Secret of Nimh (1982)
We like our rodents. Mickey Mouse (and family), Mighty Mouse, Chip and Dale, Mouseguard, Rescuers Down Under, Jerry, Adolescent Radioactive Black Belt Hamsters (Sam Kieth!), Fievel - and tons more. I pop this in when I forget what animation is when I watch crap like Transformers: Cybertron.
I want to add two Robin Williams flicks that I know a lot of people just don’t like but Popeye was on my betamax rotation and that scene with the octopus is one of those movie images that remains vivid with me and Paul Smith is a classic film villain. I also liked Hook, if for no other reason that if - and tell the truth - if the Pan abdicated and left a multi-national and multi-race gang, it would be the Asian kid that would take over - Rufio! Which makes me think of another fantasy movie with Williams (that doesn’t fall into the timeframe) that I’ve always liked, What Dreams May Come (which was a Matheseon novel for all you new I am Legend fans, and like that, it’s a very loose adaptation). I haven’t seen it in years, but I just always remember - though I’m not sure if it’s the beginning or a flashback - the scene where Williams meet his wife Annabbela Sciorra on the lake and just how colorful and intense it was and how you later saw it only replicated in ‘heaven’ and though it was very simple it always just struck me. Sciorra was also drop-dead in that scene as well.
Anyways, that’s the stuff I really dug as a kid that was Fantasy related as a kid!
















10 responses so far ↓
1 Elio M. García, Jr. // Aug 5, 2008 at 8:18 am
Interesting post, and a good list. One quibble, however:
Star Wars is space opera. Space opera is a sub-genre of SF.
2 jaytomio // Aug 5, 2008 at 9:17 am
I’d say Star Wars has nothing in it that is remotely Science fiction unless (and this acceptable to me in that I simply don’t like arguing with people about it) anyone that thinks anything with spaceships in it is indeed Science Fiction. I’d call it Fantasy because Lucas presents nothing (in the films of this era) that is science. He would later introduce the midicholorians - and that is indeed a SF element (thought one that I think had a negative effect on the film-canon). These are magicians on a quest that happen to employ unexplained technology.
I think people would see a dramatic difference when reading something that is Space Opera (or Planetary Romance - or whatever) like Wright’s Golden Age, Hamilton’s work, or various Macleod etc, etc
Even Lightsabers are presented as a semi-’mystical’ device.
3 jaytomio // Aug 5, 2008 at 9:23 am
I also want to add that I’m not at all knocking Star Wars for not being Science Fiction - because it’s not
and in the end doesn’t matter how anybody chooses to categorize it, it’s just how I do - and as you’d know I have some understanding of a multitude of sub-genres in speculative fiction and the older I get I think them all the more useless!
4 Zach H. // Aug 5, 2008 at 11:30 am
I love Willow. Yeah, it’s incredibly derivative, but it’s also incredibly fun. As much as I like Jackson’s LotR films, they do feel like something I have to commit to watching. Willow is one of those movies I can sit down and watch practically anytime.
Madmartigan vs. General Kael is still my favorite movie fight of all time. Had the film been done today, that confrontation likely would’ve been reduced to a bunch of goofy swashbuckling. As it is, though, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a PG-rated fight that matches the brief intensity of the encounter, especially with the culmination when Madmartigan uses that step-on-the-hilt trick to finish off the job. I can’t tell you how many times I reenacted that scene as a kid.
5 jaytomio // Aug 5, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I agree. I love the Jackson stuff, but is ‘a mission’ and something you have to kind of troop up for while most of these movies above (including Willow) are just cruise control chillin’ watching for me. Sure you watch Willow and you’re like this is on some Moses/Hobbit stuff, but it’s fun and I think it catches that light hearted tone (not speaking on anything else) that Lucas would have looked for if he did the Hobbit like he wanted to.
Oh, and Kael? Sweetest Helm of 1988 - no doubt!
6 DavidS // Aug 6, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I don’t think Ridley Scott’s Legend gets enough love, and it was made even better with the director’s cut (with respect to Tangerine Dream (their Near Dark score rocked) Jerry Goldsmith’s score fits the film like a glass slipper). And Tim Curry shines through pounds of make-up as Darkness.
7 Jack Burton // Aug 6, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Thanks for the props. It’s all in the reflexes.
8 jaytomio // Aug 7, 2008 at 12:54 am
David,
Legend was one of three or four movies that aren’t on the list that I was really considering (off the top of my head, Groundhog Day and Watership Down as well). I have to be completely shallow an admit I was struck with visions of jumping on couches, though now that I think about it maybe Ghost deserves to be on here.
Okay. You people sit tight, hold the fort and keep the home fires burning. And if we’re not back by dawn
… call the president
9 Elio M. García, Jr. // Aug 7, 2008 at 6:05 am
“I’d call it Fantasy because Lucas presents nothing (in the films of this era) that is science. ”
I don’t know, artificially intelligent, man-made humaniform machines (aka droids) is pretty science fictional to me. Aliens on other planets, FTL, and so on…
It’s like saying Flash Gordon (one of the influences on Star Wars) isn’t science fiction. Or E.E. Doc Smith’s original space operas, because the science content of those books is extremely small.
If any mystical content rules out something being SF, I think there’s a lot of SF out there that’s actually a fantasy and doesn’t know it.
10 jaytomio // Aug 7, 2008 at 8:32 am
As I said before the argument isn’t one that i find interesting anymore but just for the sake of discussion we are talking mostly about unexplained technology and as Clarke stated tech and magic are rather hard to tell a part at times and one has to make their own decision where certain projects falls
I do agree there is lot of projects called SF (perhaps even by a majority) that I’d consider Fantasy (or more fantasy). If we argue intent of writer matters then I’m pretty sure I’ve read that Lucas himself has called Star Wars a Fantasy or ‘Space fantasy” which may be a step away from Space Opera, but I do think we see a distinction from other space operas. I’m just not sure If I’m ready to call any adventure in Space SF, and I think Star Wars definitely has more characteristics of Fantasy if one did want to call it anything for the purposes of argument (for some reason). Is He-Man a SF movie? I guess it could be, but I’d call it fantasy - it’s not really an important distinction, or one that anybody would care about but if somebody asked me to make a choice that’s what I’d call it (though maybe it’s a poor example it has been years since I’ve seen it).
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